RVE #299: Simplifying Your Business by Letting Go of the Shoulds

Do you ever feel like you should be doing something more for your business? You should be doing reels. You should be doing lives. You should be doing [fill in the blank]. Or perhaps you always felt the weight of the shoulds in your life. You should get a house. You should get a college degree. You should [fill in the blank]. On today’s episode, you’ll hear from Jessica Eley about what’s buried beneath those shoulds and how to navigate your way to true success. Sure, we talked about money, but more importantly, we talked about how to know what’s enough in your business, so you can get off the hamster wheel of all the shoulding, and into a systematized pattern that feels really good while fueling your growth.

Listen to The RV Entrepreneur Episode#299

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The RV Entrepreneur #299 Episode Transcript:

Kimberly Crossland: Thank you so much for joining us on the show today. I am really, really, really excited to talk to you because Jessica, you and I have been in a similar Facebook group for a while. Not a similar, we’ve been in the same Facebook group for a while Jessica Eley: Yeah. Kimberly Crossland: and we’ve gotten to know each other there. I’ve followed you for years. I don’t know, probably since 2018, I want to say, 2019-ish. I don’t know. I don’t even remember. It’s been that long. And you have such a gift for… helping people to find the ease. And I think that that here at the RV Entrepreneur podcast, that’s what we’re all about, is finding that ease and simplicity and avoiding the overwhelm that can come with running a business. So before I get too far ahead of myself, why don’t you help us get to know you a little bit better, share your backstory, and for someone who has not been like me following you for years, let us get to know a little bit more about who you are. Jessica Eley: Yeah, thanks. Yeah, it’s funny, right? Like you get to know people and you’re in similar orbits and then you’re like, I don’t even really know how we got to know each other, but I know we’ve been connected for a while. So it’s always fun when I get to do these kinds of things. So it’s interesting that the point that you brought up is like my ability to help people maybe let go of what it is they think they should do or to have a more ease filled. life or business. I was not that person. I like all through my early 20s was very type A. Like, like very type A like take the most type A person you know, when I was probably a notch or two above that type of thing. Like I got my bachelor’s degree in seven semesters while working full time and getting married kind of thing. And then had yes. I don’t advise that for the record. In hindsight, that was not my smartest move. But, that’s the kind of person I was. And I had this checklist in my mind of, buy the house, have the kids. I was married already, so that one was already checked off. And by the time I was like 25 or so, I kind of checked all my boxes already. And it was very unsettling. to recognize that I had been pushing like crazy, had accomplished a lot of the things that I already wanted, and was deeply unsatisfied. And not only was like deeply unsatisfied, but was like actually miserable. And it’s not that I wasn’t grateful for what I had, right? Like I’m still married to my husband. I went on and had four kids. So it’s not like I realized motherhood wasn’t for me or like. I live in the house that we bought at that time, right? It wasn’t about like, I made mistakes. It was like, I was looking for something outside of me to give my life meaning or purpose or direction. And I had a very… I’ll just call it American, but I think it’s not a uniquely American idea of what it would be that would make me happy. And it turns out it wasn’t any of those things. And I guess in hindsight, I am really grateful that I hit that point so early in life. I see a lot of people hit this like in midlife or later, and I’m glad that that happened to me, but it… did make me really learn how to still be high achiever oriented. Like, like I always am wanting to crush it at whatever I do, but I never do that anymore at the expense of the life that I’m living right now. And I think that’s the thing that I really learned by going through that. And that’s something that I try to support others in also creating for themselves. Kimberly Crossland: That’s so interesting because you’re absolutely right that a lot of people will hit this moment. I don’t know. There’s no set timeframe, but a lot of people will call it that midlife crisis or something like that where it’s almost like, hold on. I have checked all those boxes like you’ve said. Now what? And why am I not happier? And I was supposed to be happier, those supposed tos, or you should be happy and you should be grateful for everything. And yeah, like you said, you are grateful for everything. It’s not a lack of gratitude. I think that’s where a lot of people get really tripped up is, I can be super grateful for this, but I can also want more. But I can also want ease. So how do you have the more and the ease together and still go in these swim lanes of what you quote unquote should be doing and follow that path? Especially, I was having this conversation actually recently with my husband and we… We were all brought up, not all, but in our family, those of us in the conversation, we were brought up in this, you should go to college and you should get a job and you should not quit after a year because you don’t want that to look bad on your resume. And you should buy the house and you should buy the car and you should have the kids and you should do, you know, and it just continues. And things are changing and our world is changing even pre 2020. This isn’t necessarily a pandemic thing. It’s just, I think how the world has evolved. So Talk to me about what happened in that moment when you were like, okay, I’m still very high achieving but I still want the ease and I’ve checked all the boxes but I still want more but I’m very grateful for the life that I have. What did that look like? What was that moment like when you were kind of in those thoughts? Jessica Eley: I’ll say it’s definitely not a moment. It is like depending on the day, I still grapple with it. I catch it very quickly now. I have my own coach and so she’ll start to say a line and I’m like, oh yeah, I’m doing that thing again where I’m like clutching at something or I’m white knuckling something and I’m… I catch it quickly and I know what to do about it and so I can let go again easily at this point. But for a lot of, for a lot of years, it looked like alternating, just absolutely trying to crush it with then being insistent that all I wanted to do was like take my kids on walks around the block and play at the park, right? And, And neither was really true. It was more like a very fast game of ping pong than a melding of the two. And I think a lot of people go through that for a while where maybe they try to ease their burnout by taking vacations. And so they spend the weekend Netflix binging or at one too many brunches or something, right? And… like where we vacillate back and forth between the things that we want rather than integrating them. And that took some doing and is something that I feel like only in the last year or two, I have really kind of understood about myself is like, how do I be oriented towards being my best self performing at the best level that I can. which is always relative, right? Like my son’s only two and a half. I haven’t had that much good sleep yet. And we’re just getting to that point, right? Where being more performance oriented can be a thing again. And two years ago that looked completely different. But how can I be that and also then be really present and mindful of what it is? that’s actually important to me day in and day out. And like, have I decided, I’ll say this, I think the things that have helped me the most are, one, answering the question, what is enough? I would happily be on the hamster wheel of more, more, more, more, more. That’s like the thing I was on for a while. That is the thing that many, many, many entrepreneurs are on. Steph Crowder is a friend of mine. She was a client too. And she called this infinity money where you just like, you just refer to the idea of you can make however much you want. And so there’s never a cap. And so answering for myself, like, what is my cap? What do I actually need in order to live the life that I want? And that can change. And I will allow that to change up or down, right? But being mindful of that. And then also being mindful of like, how do I actually want to be showing up right now? Being aware that like, I can’t show up for my kids and my extended family and my business and my health and my friends and all the other things equally at the same time, that’s not a thing. So what is important right now? And the ability to be really present with. how it is I want to be experiencing my life and what it is I want to be focused on is huge. Kimberly Crossland: Yeah, that absolutely is. I think that you just touched on what it means to be an RV entrepreneur. This is why we dive into this lifestyle. We want the RV life. We want to be able to hit the road. We want to be able to see things, travel, push further, go to new national parks that might not have the internet. That’s where we are showing up right now is in those moments. But then also we have that same thing that you touched on with what is enough. And yeah, we can be making all the money. There is no cap, like you said, but when is it enough? And so we can have that permission slip to be okay with being off grid for a little bit, be okay with taking several weeks off instead of several days off. And so it’s really, really interesting how you’ve just summed up our lifestyle, you know, as RV entrepreneurs into these two questions that I don’t think… I at least myself, I have not broken them out into those two questions to think, okay, what is enough? And that infinity money concept is really compelling too. Yeah, you could be making all the money and that’s the idea of starting your own business, but when do you allow yourself to take a step back and to catch your breath and come up for air? And so I’m curious to hear your answer to this. You mentioned… getting off that hamster wheel of go, go, go, go, go, being super high achieving and always pushing for that next best thing, the next offer to make or the next launch to do or whatever that next thing is, how do you get off that hamster wheel and come up for air? Jessica Eley: I think it is ultimately an exercise of presence. Like I’m not going to trade potential future benefits for everything good that is happening to me right now. Right? And there’s a little bit of a balance there because like maybe you do want something better down the road. Maybe you do have your eye on something that would improve your life. And there’s nothing wrong with that. And I will happily support anybody in chasing whatever the heck it is they want. But when we are living in the future or we’re living for the future, we miss everything that’s happening right now. So you can be staring at a 300 year old Sequoia and miss the whole point because like you’re mapping things out in your head, right? And… Um, like, can you let yourself enjoy the okayness right now? And that doesn’t mean that you don’t get to go for better or you don’t get to hope for more. It doesn’t mean that we dilute ourselves into thinking that something is okay. That isn’t okay right now. Sometimes things aren’t okay. And, and that’s important as well. But this notion of like, it will be better when. is really, really dangerous because it gets you stuck on working for something that you may never get to, right? And ultimately the okayness doesn’t come, I shouldn’t say it that way. Okayness can come externally, but your okayness is going to be far more stable if it’s internal, right? And if like, I guess let’s think of it. The opposite of an RV is maybe a cruise ship, right? But they are of course influenced by gigantic waves that come along, but they also have those internal stabilizers, right? And that take away a lot of the choppiness. And if you have those stabilizers inside of yourself, that doesn’t mean that you’re ignorant to what’s going on outside of yourself, but it doesn’t. throw you off course, right? It’s the ability to recognize I’m good right here and here’s what it is I want next and here’s what I’m going for and here’s what I’m trying to reach or here’s what I’d like to see myself accomplish. But it’s more like the accomplishments come as a side effect of your growth and a side effect of you being present to what it is you want to do rather than the accomplishments being the indicator of how okay you are. Kimberly Crossland: Oh gosh, I love that. Accomplishments are the side effect of your growth. It’s not, yeah, this is not something that you’re always chasing. It’s like, I can do this and I’m excited about it, but it’s not going to make or break me. And that’s such a mindset shift that is so, so, so important. And I believe I can speak for myself in this. Several years ago, I was actually, I think it was right when… I started to listen, tune in to you and I found you by the way through Steph Crowder’s podcast also. Yes, we’re in the same Facebook group for a while, but you guys had an episode on her podcast that I was like, oh my goodness, this is so, so good and exactly what I needed to hear. And it’s a lot of what we were talking about also right now, but in that moment when I was listening to that podcast, I was having that lack of presence in my own life. And so my kids were very little at the time. I found myself bringing them home from school and needing to show up on Zoom for a client and saying, please just sleep. And it was the wrong intention for me wanting them to sleep. I wanted them to sleep, obviously, for their health and wellbeing. They were very young at the time and they’re still very young, but even more so then. And yes, they needed that nap time, but they needed that nap time for their health. And my mindset was so I can have my Zoom call and please just sleep for at least an hour so I can finish this up without interruption. And I realized that is so wrong and that’s my total lack of presence, like you were saying, and the lack of understanding of what I wanted my life to look like. And so where did I need to be showing up right then was for my kids. And here I was trying to show up for the client and I thought that’s priorities are so out of whack right there. And we’ll do that often for our own business because a lot of us will treat our business like a client in a way. And so having that… that calibration of coming back to center of like, hold on, what are the real shoulds here? So let’s talk about those shoulds because society, like we kind of started in the beginning of this conversation, society will often tell us you should get the education, you should get the house, and you should get the J-O-B, and you should not leave that J-O-B until you’re ready to retire. So specifically now in today’s day and age, and specifically with RV entrepreneurs, we our lifestyle is a little bit different. So how do you lean into what’s right for you and to find that balance? How do you avoid those shoulds and shoulding all over ourselves as the expression goes? Jessica Eley: I think a lot of this is actually about first knowing what is enough and not needing some specific result on some specific timeline, which is so counter maybe our first should, which is like, here’s how you set smart goals, right? And they have to be measurable and time bound. all of these things that are like baked into us, right? And theoretically, I’m not inherently against that, but as soon as we smack labels like that on things, our brains start calibrating to like, okay, well, that’s what needs to happen. And if that’s what needs to happen, then what do I need to do now to make that happen? And… What tends to happen is we lose all form of curiosity and experimentation because by definition an experiment like you don’t know what you’re going to get for it right we don’t know what result we’re going to get we’re going to don’t know how successful something’s going to be so you put something out there and you don’t know if it’s going to stick and if you need a certain result on a certain timeline It’s really hard to allow yourself to do those things that maybe are right for you, but aren’t quite getting the result in the way that you hoped it would. Right. And so the more we can say, you know what, like, here’s actually how I want to show up. I literally two hours ago was on the phone with somebody who has about two million Instagram followers. If I brought it up here, I think the vast majority of people would know who this person is. And he asked me what I thought the best way would be to make himself more visible. And I said, you know, and he was like, do I need to do reels or is it like lives or am I like… And he was like trying to like intellectualize all of this, right? And I was like, I don’t care. I want you to do it in the way that you will actually do it. Right? Because the way that you can continue to show up for it is the way that ultimately you will be able to figure out how to make that thing get your result. If you are iterating on a process that you enjoy and that you can sustain, you will find a way to make that get you the result that you want. What is very hard to do is to take something that you hate doing, but is getting you your smart goal check boxes ticked, and somehow turn it into something that doesn’t like suck a little piece of your soul out every time that you do it. That is really hard to come back from, right? And so all day, every day, I will rather encourage somebody to pay attention to the thing that they can do that doesn’t feel like work, the thing that they can do that gives them… gives them something back for the process of doing it. Right? Again, it’s just like me and the business. If I am only working for the result and then I don’t get the result, I just expended a lot of energy for nothing. If I can participate in a process where that process fills me up, then I get something back that is just a bonus. if I achieve my desired outcome, right? And in that way, you can sustain growth forever and ever and ever. And the other thing I’ll say to this is, this is like hockey stick growth, where like you might have to iterate for six months or a year. You might have to work with some people you don’t particularly love because the thing that you love is not yet taking off the way that you had hoped. There are concessions to this. But when you find that thing, when you figure out what is the way that I can do this forever and ever and ever, and the paycheck is just a really cool perk, you will experience the long tail of the hockey stick that we all hope for. Whereas people who are just looking for a nice graph that goes up and to the right, will maybe achieve results that you are hoping for sooner. but they will also never have the long tail of the hockey stick and they will miss out on opportunities just because they are so committed to like the trajectory that they are already on. Kimberly Crossland: Yeah, that’s so, so good. And you’re so right. We fall victim into these shoulds of especially, like you just talked about, social media. We should do the reals. We should do the lives. We should do all that. And that’s where I think so much of that burnout comes from. And I believe that from my own conversations with people as well, a lot of that shoulding comes because for two reasons. First off, it’s the fear. The fear of not making enough or finding enough or having that paycheck or being able to put gas in our tank to get to the next campground. And also the fear of shiny object syndrome, that shiny object syndrome of, oh, well, reels are kind of fun and maybe I’ll try that too. So I’d love to hear from you. First of all, how do you, to speak to the fear side of this, how do you find out what is enough? Because sometimes you do just need that money. I mean, not just sometimes, we do need some income coming in, of course. And I know you talked about for six months or two years, sometimes you gotta work with someone that you don’t like, but how do you find out what is enough? And then how do you move past the fear-based sales to fall victim to that shiny object syndrome? Jessica Eley: Okay, so figuring out what is enough is from everyone I’ve ever worked with, a highly iterative process where you’re experimenting with like, what happens if I go for this much? Is that actually what I need? Do I actually need to even work that much? Sometimes it’s not just about the money. Sometimes it’s about knowing what is enough in terms of like how visible you are, how much growth you’re experiencing, how much people are responding to your work, how like what it is you are getting back that is not monetary, right? Because sometimes we’re working for the fulfillment of it or for, because we like seeing our expertise. So what is enough is obviously in part practical, like do you actually know your numbers? Are you willing to sit down and look at, this is what we really need? Knowing are you the kind of person who is inclined to tolerate being with and living with too little? Or are you the kind of person who is always underestimating and then, you know, one too many once-in-a-lifetime opportunities come up and all of a sudden there goes your ideas of what would be enough. So there’s a practical like financial number to that and how willing are you to look at that. But mostly it’s understanding and really doing some self-reflection on what it is you need to be your most present self, right? So I’ve had times where I thought that I didn’t need a nanny, for instance, or we didn’t need summer camp or something. I love my kids dearly, but 12 weeks of summer with four kids is like not my idea of a barrel of fun. Kimberly Crossland: Ha Jessica Eley: And… Kimberly Crossland: ha ha. Jessica Eley: I can delude myself into thinking like, oh sure, we could save the, however many, many hundreds of dollars we would spend per week to have somebody watch them. Or I can actually spend that money and then be able to be with them and show up for them the way that I really want to. And what is the number that I need? What are the things that I need in my life in order? to enjoy my life right now the way it is. Not like what are the improvements that I need. I don’t need a new house, I don’t need a new car necessarily. But if you’re sweating it every day, how you’re going to get from point A to point B because said car is not working and that keeps you from being present, then maybe actually you do need to factor that in. And what you thought would be enough. isn’t actually because you are now being drawn away to this thing that you have to react to every day by not really advocating for having needs met that would help you live a better life. As far as shiny object syndrome goes, that often happens when we think people outside of us know better than we do. And there’s a big difference between somebody strategically knowing like nuts and bolts, pen to paper, here is what works, right? The algorithm is currently favoring reels. Oh wait, nope, they’re switching back to posts now. Actually carousels are doing really well, right? Forget all of that, it’s at TikTok. Like those things may be. true in terms of black and white numbers, right? But then we go back to what I care about is what it is you will iterate on, what it is you, what process you will show up for. And sometimes if you can think of shiny object syndrome more as personal development or self awareness development 101, then like I’m bouncing from thing to thing, trying to figure out what. works in air quotes, then you have a much better mindset about why it is you’re experimenting with these things. Like you’re not experimenting to try and get the result, you’re trying to experiment for the sake of understanding what will work for you as a person and what you can keep showing up for. So I’m not against shiny object syndrome, it just becomes problematic if we’re not reflecting on why did that work for me, why did that not. Do I wanna keep doing that rather than like just, did I reach these outcomes? And it becomes problematic when we are only using it to try to achieve an outcome rather than like understand ourselves better. Kimberly Crossland: Yeah, that’s really important and it’s such a mindset shift like you said to it’s okay to try things. And I think that we fall into two different camps. Like you said, it’s either we do shiny object syndrome because we’re like, well, we should be doing that, the reels and then the posts and then the carousels and then forget Instagram altogether. And then we also fall into it because we’re curious about it and why not give it a try? And that’s okay to do it in that vein. And especially when you’re transparent about it and you’re open about it, like, hey, you don’t have to say, I’m only trying reals because I’m curious about it. But, you know, if someone asks you about it, you can say, yeah, I tried it. It really wasn’t for me and that’s okay too. But then it all comes back to you. And I love that. I love that it’s all coming back to that personal development, like you said. So approaching that shiny object syndrome as that personal development and professional development in the same being because they all kind of blend and you’re an entrepreneur. It’s really, really, really powerful. Do you have any questions that you maybe journal on, or you reflect on, or you ask of your clients to reflect on that could help sort of calibrate when we’re leaning into something, where does it feel hard because it’s new, and where does it feel hard because it’s just not in alignment with where we really want to keep showing up? Are there any specific questions that you might, that you would ask and be like, um, This is something good to think through as you’re making this decision for what’s next for you. Jessica Eley: Mm-hmm. It’s not exactly answering this question, but I think one important thing to answer maybe first is why are you doing this, right? It is profoundly different to do something for a result. I’m doing this because I’m trying to improve my click-through rate. I’m doing this because I’m trying to optimize conversions from this to that, right? I’m doing this because… I’m trying to create more warm leads for myself. That is completely different than, I am doing this to understand what it is my people want from me. I am doing this to understand what it is I like to show up for. I’m doing this to clarify what it is I want the business to grow into next, right? Because the- the vast majority of our actions are actually often in service of creating clarity for ourselves. And the more we can really own that, then the more we can accurately reflect on how successful something was for us. Right? So if your only marker is, well everything I’m doing in the business I’m doing to make money, obviously, like, cause why else would I be in business? If that’s your only bar, then you’re missing all the other lessons along the way. And so I think that’s thing one, because that determines what questions you ask on the back end, right? If somebody is trying to optimize conversions or just make more money off of an action, which is fine. Like, I’m really not trying to down on the money here, right? But if that’s why you’re doing it, then it’s pretty straightforward. Again, like, did it work or did it not? Did you get the thing that you wanted or did you not? When we’re trying to understand something about ourselves or our audience or like the process or the system that we are working in, then it’s more a matter of like, if I got nothing back for this, would I still be willing to do this, right? So if I received nothing in return, did that process, did that… activity, did that task, give me something, right? It doesn’t need to be the end all be all, but did I feel good in doing that? I do not know how many piles of podcasts I have been on, and there have been a handful that like without them my business would not be the same, and there have been way more that I got absolutely nothing for, and I don’t care because part of it is like me understanding myself and how I want to articulate my work and who it is that resonates with what I’m saying. I don’t care. I would love it if somebody enjoys what it is I’m saying or finds something interesting and they they come follow me or they come work with me. That’s fantastic, of course, but I will continue to show up for this over and over and over. And the flip side of this, my personal example, is that people have begged me like, Jess, please make your own podcast. Like I just want your voice in my ears. I don’t understand that, but I have heard this. Kimberly Crossland: I do, because I enjoy listening to you. Jessica Eley: And I can’t do it. I hate it. I hate sitting down and just needing to like concoct something out of thin air and then like pushing it out there. And the whole process just drains me. I could sit there and either argue with myself about how like, this is the thing people want from you. It would probably do really well. Or I can acknowledge, like that’s not ever going to be how I naturally show up. Paying attention to how your energy feels up or down on the backend of doing something before a result is either achieved or not is huge. Because if you’re waiting until you achieve result or don’t, then most likely your self-reflection is going to be tainted by those results, right? Like if it worked then we’re like, oh, but I want this, I want to like this because it really worked. But like a little piece of me died. And so you don’t want, like find the reflection point before it’s time to evaluate the results. Kimberly Crossland: Yeah, so what I’m hearing then is you can have, there’s two different measuring mechanisms. The first is before you have any kind of a result, calibrate what’s happening on your insides. How do you feel? Are you excited? Would you do this with or without the end result, not even knowing it? Is this thing you want to continue to do and show up for? And then look at the tactical end result, the conversion rate or the click through rate or whatever it is that you’re measuring. then look at that and see if it’s worth it. And if the two of those align, then you’re onto something. If there’s something else that’s off, then maybe it’s time to take your foot off the gas and figure out a different route. So this is really, really, really powerful stuff. I love listening to despite you not having your own podcast, which is okay. And I love that self-reflection. I love opening this up and having these kinds of conversations. And I know that you do go on a lot of podcasts. other ways for people to follow you and tap into your world even if it’s not on your own podcast. So how can we follow you? How can we stay closely connected to you and find out what you have to offer? Jessica Eley: Yeah, so the easiest is to go to my website, Jessica Ely, E-L-E-Y dot com. Um, I have a resources page there where you can in fact go listen to other podcast interviews I’ve done. It also like, you know, has things you can check out that I have made. Um, and otherwise the place where I am most prolific, but sporadic is Instagram. My stories, uh, get. okay, the bursts of love when I feel drawn to saying something. My handle there is I am Jess Ely. Kimberly Crossland: Perfect. Thank you. And of course, I’ll link to all of those in the show notes so it’ll be easy to find you. Thank you so much for coming on. And again, I’ve got all these little nuggets that I took away. I’ve got a lot of notes written next to me and I just love that. So thank you, thank you, thank you. It was great chatting with you and we’ll talk again soon. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The RV Entrepreneur is presented by RV Life – Tools that Make Camping Simple https://rvlife.com You May Also Like: The RV Life Podcast https://podcast.rvlife.com/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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